[rustynutz]

I believe a head/shoulder check in conjunction with using your mirrors increases the chances of a driver being more aware of what is around him/her...that can only be a good thing...  

Click HERE to learn how to set your mirrors correctly for maximum vision.

[Surferdude]

I believe a head/shoulder check in conjunction with using your mirrors increases the chances of a driver being more aware of what is around him/her...that can only be a good thing... 

Agree Rusty.

At 60kmh a car travels 16.67 metres in a second... I don't know exactly how long it takes to turn your head right around and assess the blind spot but I'd rather be offering just a flick of the eyes and a slight turn of the head to maintain my attention to the front.

Does anyone here want to own up to actually, or nearly, rear-ending someone while attempting to change lanes?

It would also be interesting to know if anyone has turned into the car beside after doing a so-called head/shoulder check. 

I haven't done either because I can either see or not see a car in either the centre or outside mirror. The centre mirror will see a car further away in the adjacent lane and the outside mirror will see one closer up in what would otherwise be the blind-spot.

When driving on multi-laned roads I regularly update myself by monitoring all three mirrors so by the time I might need to change lanes I already know who's around me most of the time and including the blind spot.

If a head check reveals a car you couldn't see in the side mirror then your mirror is adjusted wrong! Cars are bloody big things... how could it not be seen in a mirror designed just for that?

I don't mean to boast but I attribute in part my proper use of side mirrors for not so much as putting a parking scratch on a car for over 30 years. 

[Ozbrum]

I'm not sure if Pip's post is for real in regard to 'No Blind Spots' on his i30 or is meant to raise a little bite of controversy   and it would need someone far more eloquent and academic in descriptive writing to explain or correctly define why we have the the term 'Blind Spots'.

My driving experience claim of knowledge would be about 40 years   passed my driving test in a big city in the UK .. drove there for 8 years before coming here to WA, since coming here I've gained an advanced drivers licence from the (what was) the road safety council of WA which included high speed road commentry while driving, skid control,defensive action and double d clutch technique through all the above and without wishing to blow my own trumpet too much have a clean Heavy Vehicle licence to drive Semi's and Double B's.

Now I don't wish to be overly critical to you in regard to your 'Blind-Spots' post and this is a very popular thread BUT .. unless you have Truck or Bus mirrors attached to each side of your i30 (not a good look) and I don't mean to be facetious either ............ You do have blind spots my friend.


 

[Ugly Mongrel]

Now I don't wish to be overly critical to you in regard to your 'Blind-Spots' post and this is a very popular thread BUT .. unless you have Truck or Bus mirrors attached to each side of your i30 (not a good look) and I don't mean to be facetious either ............ You do have blind spots my friend.

I couldn't agree more, Ozbrum. EVERY car has blind spots. A shoulder check does not involve "turning your head right around" as Pip suggests. The "flick of the eyes and a slight turn of the head" as suggested by Pip is all it takes. I use BOTH shoulder checks and mirrors when lane changing and am quite comfortable knowing that there is no other vehicle  in the space I want to place my car.

[rustynutz]

If a head check reveals a car you couldn't see in the side mirror then your mirror is adjusted wrong! Cars are bloody big things... how could it not be seen in a mirror designed just for that?

The trouble is, cars aren't the only vehicles on our roads, there are also vehicles such as motorcycles and bicycles.... 
And pip, people fail to see vehicles all the time..even when they aren't using mirrors.....Look how many people will pull out in front of another car or even a truck at an intersection. 

I'm not sure if Pip's post is for real in regard to 'No Blind Spots' on his i30 or is meant to raise a little bite of controversy   and it would need someone far more eloquent and academic in descriptive writing to explain or correctly define why we have the the term 'Blind Spots'.

My driving experience claim of knowledge would be about 40 years   passed my driving test in a big city in the UK .. drove there for 8 years before coming here to WA, since coming here I've gained an advanced drivers licence from the (what was) the road safety council of WA which included high speed road commentry while driving, skid control,defensive action and double d clutch technique through all the above and without wishing to blow my own trumpet too much have a clean Heavy Vehicle licence to drive Semi's and Double B's.

Now I don't wish to be overly critical to you in regard to your 'Blind-Spots' post and this is a very popular thread BUT .. unless you have Truck or Bus mirrors attached to each side of your i30 (not a good look) and I don't mean to be facetious either ............ You do have blind spots my friend.


 

Your credentials to enter the discussion are exemplary but with respect I maintain that correctly adjusted side mirrors can eliminate any blind spot.

I probably need to define what I mean by blind spot. I'm defining it as not being able to see a car about the c pillar area at all. A car that can be right beside you yet remain undetected with the car's mirrors.

By proper adjustment of the mirrors a car cannot "hide" in this area. I'm not saying that some part of the car cannot be unseen but I'm saying it cannot remain undetected.

My side mirrors are adjusted out sufficiently far enough such that the rear of a car beside me will be visible in the centre mirror at the same time as the front will have appeared in the side mirror. Once the car has moved further forward (assume) to pass from the side mirror's view it is then visible through the side window. So at no position is the car beside me undetectable. Winding the mirrors out like this also allows a view of the next lane out again as well.

I might add that the i30 mirrors are easier to adjust in this manner because of the inherently wide view.

I expected to get a little push-back on this but it's long been a hobby-horse of mine so I thought I'd risk my arm.

I'm sure most people adjust their side mirrors to simply replicate what can already be seen in the centre mirror without thought. If you can see the sides of your car then you have ensured you have large blind spots and not the minimal I have defined.

[rustynutz]

You're forgetting about motorcycles etc, pip......they can easily hide in areas that a car would be visible....

You're forgetting about motorcycles etc, pip......they can easily hide in areas that a car would be visible....

No not really, the mirror should not be wound out so far that this could happen. The whole reason is to eliminate the blind spot. If you wind out too far you just create a new one. You want neither a "gap" between the centre mirror and the side mirror nor have the side mirror overlapping the centre mirror so far that it doesn't see out far enough to the side to see a car beside you in the next lane - the "blind spot".

I might have tended to mislead by overstating it a little to make my point... let me say it again...the side mirror should be wound out such that it still, and sufficiently, overlaps the centre mirror that the blind spot is covered but not so little as to allow a car to "get in front of" the side mirror before it is visible directly through the side window. One should only be able to see the sides of your car, as a rule-of-thumb, by rocking your head all the way to the side window. As I keep saying, most can see the door handles from the normal driving position. This is not right and you might as well leave them folded in for what real use they will be.

I have mine adjusted a little further than this so that there may be less overlap but I am very confident with how I adjust them that I can see all around me as have been doing this ever since I learnt to drive and pushed panel vans around for many years.

There is no other way to do it if you have no bloody windows!

And I might re-add my caution: if you readjust your mirrors it will take some time before you can properly interpret what you see with the new view. You will have to relearn it.

[eye30]

I believe that no matter how good a driver you think you are accidents will happen and do at the most unexpected time so you should always be aware of what is going on around you.

You don't know what they are thinking and you can't tell them what they should be doing so...............

To be safe, drive within your limitations and treat all others as if they are going to do something out of the ordinary by keeping a beady eye on the twerp in the other car.

 

[Surferdude]

I tend to agree the blind spot is a furphy. It is a term introduced to explain why we sometimes don't see a vehicle beside us. I definitely agree that correct adjustment of your side mirrors will eliminate it.
However, let me throw another point into this mix.
I had an AU 11Falcon and there was something about the size/shape/ placement of the mirrors which prevented me (in my fully back seating position) from getting full coverage of the rear view. This was compounded by the fact that the "B" pillar was right beside my right ear and about 30 cm away. Which meant a head turn, no matter how brief or comprehensive did not provide the information I needed. Their may well be other cars like this and if we don't maintain the brief head turn habit may one day find ourselves caught out.
However, the i30, with both its outside mirrors designed for wider view, is easy to adjust for a full spread behind me.
Having said all that, if you use your mirrors constantly (I have a vague idea I heard some advanced defensive driving instructor say, every 5-7 seconds), you should build and maintain a mental image of what's behind you and whether or not they are likely to "suddenly" appear alongside you. Also, in conjunction with the regular mirror checking, you never move your eyes away from the forward position without taking a mental snapshot of everything in front of you which should ring alarm bells if anything looks a bit "off"

Re-reading this I'm not sure I've been as clear as I should have been but I guess you guys will tell me.
Later I'll tell you a story about how this causes some friction between my wife and me.

[Shambles]

Later I'll tell you a story about how this causes some friction between my wife and me.

Tap..tap..tap.. awaits the tale of friction.. tap.. tap..

[Ozbrum]

Lets face it we are all trying to say we are AWARE of each other on the road and we want to know who is coming along side of us at all time.

I accept the overall picture of what you say in regard to mirrors Pip and I'm sure you are a very good driver.

My final point on 'Blind Spots' and 'Mirrors', is  within the road rules of WA and it is on the Driver Examination sheet for you to gain a WA drivers licence is 'Checking of Blind Spots' ... If you don't physically show yourself as moving your head even your shoulder to clearly and distinctly be checking your 'blind spots' then the examiner will fail you the same as if you've driven through a 'stop sign' or didn't put your seat belt on ..... and you can argue till the cows come home about 'mirror adjustment' BUT you will have failed your driving test.

We in the West are particularly BAD drivers and the car you can see on your right will in a millisecond zoom passed you on your left. A 'blind spot' to drivers over here is when you poke yourself in the eye.


Cheers 

[rustynutz]

Drivers that rely solely on their mirrors (or not at all), please take NOTE!
Doing a head check in combination with using your mirrors might just prevent an accident of the sort that happens in this video.
While clipping a car might just result in an exchange of paint, clipping a motorcycle can have disastrous consequences...

[rustynutz]

And while i'm on the subject of Motorcycles......

Ok guys, many valid points of view and lively discussion on the mirror subject. I think we have explored the topic to the point that there's little left unsaid and I do hope and suspect that some of us, and particularly those of us with less experience, will have had their awareness of the use and adjustment of the side mirrors heightened.  If so, that's good.

Thank you to all whom contributed.

I'd like to say something that might elicit differing views once again.

This has been discussed elsewhere but I'd like to bring it up here and say that unless the conditions warrant it, lights should not be used during the day. Say what?

I know it's even law in some places but this does not alter my opinion. My objection is based on the confusion I have when the tail lights are permanently lit and then the stop lights come on. If I've been checking the mirrors ( ) or the speed and looked up I often have a moment of hesitation while I decide whether I'm seeing the tail lights or is it now the stop lights?

This split second confusion does not present itself at night because the stop lights appear subjectively to be significantly brighter at night but during the day in bright conditions the difference between tail and stop lights is not always immediately apparent. The difference between off and lit however is obvious.

I'd like to roll into this the design choices made by some manufacturers where the turn indicators are placed concentrically within the tail/stop light assembly. It may have something to do with the increasing use of LEDs but I find that on some cars (mostly German) the turn indicator is "swamped" by the stop lights.

And yet another to do with lights: Does anyone else find that some LED stop lights are so bright as to dazzle you? This I find this particularly when the rear lights are high up so that they are near to eye height. Sometimes stopped at lights I find it necessary to look away to avoid having my retinas drilled by the car in front.

[rustynutz]

This has been discussed elsewhere but I'd like to bring it up here and say that unless the conditions warrant it, lights should not be used during the day. Say what?

I'll agree with you on this one, pip....but not so much for your reasons but more so that I believe a car's distance away from you (with lights on) is more difficult to judge.

Also a consideration, most motorcycles have their headlights hardwired permanently on for "supposedly" better visibility during the day....Now if cars also have their lights on, surely a motorcycle will just blend in with the lights of the car further behind?  :-\

[snowcherry]

If a head check reveals a car you couldn't see in the side mirror then your mirror is adjusted wrong! Cars are bloody big things... how could it not be seen in a mirror designed just for that?

well in my old car i have. but in the instance i mentioned i could see in the left hand mirror there was traffic in the left lane but back somewhat, that i had to merge into. quick head check and confirm nothing on my side. then start to move over and get horn blasted as suddenly there is a car right there on my side, which my mirror failed to show someone suddenly appeared into that spot.  
however in the i30 i have yet to have this issue, the mirrors are different and do show more. maybe i did have the old mirrors set up wrong but i know i played with the fords mirrors countlessly and just never 'got' it, whereas with the i30 i'm still slightly in disbelief that the mirror thing actually works!
on a side note i find it difficult to see properly in a falcon ute as well but admittedly haven't been in one enough to play with the mirrors more.
i do think the i30 still has a blind spot, its just very tiny compared to the fords, and the cars can't fit into it  

anyway....i use both mirrors and head check...and it works very well  

p.s just noticed everyone is moving on...

[snowcherry]

I'll agree with you on this one, pip....but not so much for your reasons but more so that I believe a car's distance away from you (with lights on) is more difficult to judge.

i will agree with this. i find the distance more difficult to judge as well, especially on a very long flattish part of the highway at certain times of day.
e.g i just can't tell if i have time to overtake the car in front of me or not. if there is a dip or slight curve in the road then that helps immensely, i can judge the length of the road; but if its dead on i can't tell.

[rustynutz]

p.s just noticed everyone is moving on...

Don't let that stop you, snow....it was only pip that made the decision that the mirror discussion had run it's course, I'm more than happy to argue it further if need be...

[2i30s]

p.s just noticed everyone is moving on...

Don't let that stop you, snow....it was only pip that made the decision that the mirror discussion had run it's course, I'm more than happy to argue it further if need be...

don't you mean debate it further. 

[rustynutz]

Nah, argue...

Not into debates with the masses......

[rustynutz]

because they end up becoming mass debates.....  

[Surferdude]

because they end up becoming mass debates.....  

Can't argue with that.

Whacker...
Or for our UK friends... Tosser...

..anyway....i use both mirrors and head check...and it works very well  

Maybe this sums it up.

[paul]

You're forgetting about motorcycles etc, pip......they can easily hide in areas that a car would be visible....

not on purpose rusty lol

i think all car drivers should have to be motorcyclists first,
then they would be more "aware"
and safer drivers.

another topic for you,  how many of us also have a bike?

[snowcherry]

..anyway....i use both mirrors and head check...and it works very well  

Maybe this sums it up.

i think all car drivers should have to be motorcyclists first,
then they would be more "aware"
and safer drivers.

another topic for you,  how many of us also have a bike?

i don't, doubt i could even lift one.
however when i was a teen my father had one for years and took me for long pillion rides quite often. also had an uncle with a bike and sidecar and had some rides with him to, and a lot of family friends had bikes at the time. i think it did help me be more aware of bikes on the road now as a non bike rider, than if i had never had any interaction with them at all. obviously some things i can't know but i pay attention to them on the road.

[rustynutz]

i think all car drivers should have to be motorcyclists first,
then they would be more "aware"
and safer drivers.

I feel the same, but it's never gonna happen....