[LuciferDarklord]

Back to the original topic, this is a timely article.
 
http://www.caradvice.com.au/15424/economy-driving-hyundai-i30/

One thing they miss is the price difference of the diesel and petrol engines on intitial purchase.

[eye30]

[quote="Lakes  this would be the right club to join http://www.supercarclub.com.au
cheers[/quote]


They forgotten to include the i30!!!!!!  it's just a good as those "prestige" cars.

[Lakes]

Back to the original topic, this is a timely article.
 
http://www.caradvice.com.au/15424/economy-driving-hyundai-i30/

One thing they miss is the price difference of the diesel and petrol engines on intitial purchase.

Well i looked at it this way, the price of petrol v diesel was $2,000, the price of SX V SLX was $4,000 so i went half way got a SX diesel

Hey Eye your right m8, my cousin has a new ( 6 months old ) Aston Martin that was hand build for him, but can't drive it to full potential down here, but he sure would like to
cheers

[donc]

Well i looked at it this way, the price of petrol v diesel was $2,000, the price of SX V SLX was $4,000 so i went half way got a SX diesel :-) the devil hides in the detail... It's become obvious (at least to me) after reading all these posts that most of the considerations we make are personal and largely unique and specific to widely varying sets of individual circumstances. Most of factors/contributors seem to result from personal preference and the deal you get on the day.

Lakes your best offer of purchase prices was a $2k difference between diesel and petrol - mine was a  $5k difference. The 1.6 petrol and 2.0  ltr diesel are not available in Australia... yet the 2.0 ltr petrol and 1.6 litre diesel are available - kind of hard when we can't compare "apples to apples"! The diesel fuel economy (at the bowser) is several points better than the petrol, yet balanced against diesel being a higher C02 and particulate polluter than petrol, the ratings end up about equal (of course assuming similar sized engines for comparison!).

Diesl fuel can be more difficult to purchase in some places, but when it can be purchased, offers better economy at the bowser. (Generalisations follow...) Diesel cars have better low rpm torque; petrol cars have better high rpm performance. Diesels are better in city traffic (discounting the effect on public health of particulate pollutants); petrol cars are better on the open road (discounting higher fuel costs). Petrol powered i30's are available relatively quickly whereas choosing to purchase a diesel i30 can result in a wait of up to 6 months, meaning a significant barrier to entry for lease and fleet purchasers (you cannot just turn around to a lease provider at the end of a lease and say "ummm, I'm going to keep the old car for another 6 months because they can't supply the new car - yeah right!).

Lots and lots of factors impact this decision, and I am the first to acknowledge these are only a few...

For me the best scenario was to go to the dealer with an open book - I didn't have a hard preference for diesel or petrol; I wasn't even convinced I wanted to purchase an i30 over a Mazda or Mitsubishi, meaning the dealer had to work to get the business. Maybe the best advice I can give is just that - give yourself options...

[Dazzler]

petrol cars are better on the open road

Hi Donc I get your drift with that last posting but strongly disagree with this generalization. My CRDi is equal to/or better than any other car I have ever driven on the highway. You just can't beat that 6cyl like grunt with the trip computer telling you your using less than half the fuel per 100kms...

i30 petrol owners can list all the reasons they like why they went for the petrol model (and many of them are justifiable due to budget, limited mileage driven, poor access to Diesel fuels) but in the end the fact that with the long waiting lists the CRDi model is still selling more than 2 to 1 against the petrol versions (even with the popularity of the SR) says it all...

[Lakes]

Well i looked at it this way, the price of petrol v diesel was $2,000, the price of SX V SLX was $4,000 so i went half way got a SX diesel :-) the devil hides in the detail... It's become obvious (at least to me) after reading all these posts that most of the considerations we make are personal and largely unique and specific to widely varying sets of individual circumstances. Most of factors/contributors seem to result from personal preference and the deal you get on the day.

Lakes your best offer of purchase prices was a $2k difference between diesel and petrol - mine was a  $5k difference. The 1.6 petrol and 2.0  ltr diesel are not available in Australia... yet the 2.0 ltr petrol and 1.6 litre diesel are available - kind of hard when we can't compare "apples to apples"! The diesel fuel economy (at the bowser) is several points better than the petrol, yet balanced against diesel being a higher C02 and particulate polluter than petrol, the ratings end up about equal (of course assuming similar sized engines for comparison!).

Diesl fuel can be more difficult to purchase in some places, but when it can be purchased, offers better economy at the bowser. (Generalisations follow...) Diesel cars have better low rpm torque; petrol cars have better high rpm performance. Diesels are better in city traffic (discounting the effect on public health of particulate pollutants); petrol cars are better on the open road (discounting higher fuel costs). Petrol powered i30's are available relatively quickly whereas choosing to purchase a diesel i30 can result in a wait of up to 6 months, meaning a significant barrier to entry for lease and fleet purchasers (you cannot just turn around to a lease provider at the end of a lease and say "ummm, I'm going to keep the old car for another 6 months because they can't supply the new car - yeah right!).

Lots and lots of factors impact this decision, and I am the first to acknowledge these are only a few...

For me the best scenario was to go to the dealer with an open book - I didn't have a hard preference for diesel or petrol; I wasn't even convinced I wanted to purchase an i30 over a Mazda or Mitsubishi, meaning the dealer had to work to get the business. Maybe the best advice I can give is just that - give yourself options...

Don your right m8.
Just thought i would add, i think diesel is better in the country where there is mountains, at least here in Australia, as for some reason we have these drivers that drive slow where there is no overtaking, sometimes you have to follow them for a long distance, then an overtaking lane comes up, and they put there foot down, the overtaking lane is always on a big hill. i used to drive 4 cylinder petrol, and ride a Harley so did not worry me, untill i had to drive the 4 cylinder petrol up the bush. and the slow drivers all seemed to have 6 cylinders or even V8's and when overtaking lane would come up i would be grabing for gears trying to get the revs up to get the 4 cylinder petrol to overtake and they would pull away, by the time i caught them the overtaking lane was finished. it was frustrating m8. plus i used a lot of fuel floging a dead horse . then i got my 6 pack ute, most of the time the problem was solved most of the time. then i got my V8 ( not my first i've owned HO falcons ) and with the V8 i could sit back and just wait for overtaking lane and it would excellerate past them quick and safe. so i found out what low end TQ does. and the i30 CRDi gets around them quick enough, not as quick as the V8 but gets past as it excellerats useing the TQ. thats on hills. if its a flat well petrol will be ok. but speed limit comes up quick. also for a city boy doing 800k 900k round trips a lot into the bush, i fill up at our low city prices drive into the bush were prices for petrol are same as city diesel price, and i drive home not needing to fill up. this is the reason i chose the diesel m8. also long term 98 octain is the best fuel to use keeps everything in the chamber along with injectors clean, the cheap unlead low octain is dirty specialy if you idle much with it. i know the 98 caltex or BP keeps them clean as i did 160,000k runing on it then took my plugs out on my three valve ford V8, if you look at the plugs that uses you would know what i mean. they are the longest reach plug i've ever seen, the 4 valve V8 does not use this type. well my plugs were clean as new, i meet a guy that just ran on the cheap unlead only did 80,000k the carbon build up on end of plug was so great he stripped the thread out had to have head removed to repair, then i saw a mates motor inside he had ran it on the 98 from new he took his intake manifold up and was like new no carbon build up on valves. so the price is not that much difference if you look at it that way.
like spend a penny to save a penny long term if you know what i mean m8.

[donc]

petrol cars are better on the open road

Hi Donc I get your drift with that last posting but strongly disagree with this generalization. My CRDi is equal to/or better than any other car I have ever driven on the highway. You just can't beat that 6cyl like grunt with the trip computer telling you your using less than half the fuel per 100kms...

Hi Dazz,

People do seem to love them - I was certainly impressed with the little diesel when I drove it, nice down low and smooth throughout it's range if (like all diesels), a little quiet and unresponsive up top  compared to it's ULP rivals ... mate it is a great little engine, but in honesty I wouldn't compare it to one of today's 6 cyls if we are talking power and driveability (assuming comparable sized car!). But the important thing is... people do like them and are prepared to pay for them! That's gotta be a good sign!  

i30 petrol owners can list all the reasons they like why they went for the petrol model (and many of them are justifiable due to budget, limited mileage driven, poor access to Diesel fuels) but in the end the fact that with the long waiting lists the CRDi model is still selling more than 2 to 1 against the petrol versions (even with the popularity of the SR) says it all...

Yep - but to be fair, remember petrol i30's are competing dfirectly with the best selling cars in the world - Mazda 3 and Toyota Corolla... for every new ULP i30 I see on the road, I see about 50 new Mazda 3's... Most petrol i30 buyers don't buy an i30... You need to be a little brave to buy an i30 in this market - Of course the diesel i30 competes in a different market to the petrol model. We can see from comments here that diesel buyers tend to have different priorities. Nothing at all wrong with that - comes back to personal choice again.

[donc]

Don your right m8.
Just thought i would add, i think diesel is better in the country where there is mountains, at least here in Australia, as for some reason we have these drivers that drive slow where there is no overtaking, sometimes you have to follow them for a long distance, then an overtaking lane comes up, and they put there foot down, the overtaking lane is always on a big hill. i used to drive 4 cylinder petrol, and ride a Harley so did not worry me, untill i had to drive the 4 cylinder petrol up the bush. and the slow drivers all seemed to have 6 cylinders or even V8's and when overtaking lane would come up i would be grabing for gears trying to get the revs up to get the 4 cylinder petrol to overtake and they would pull away, by the time i caught them the overtaking lane was finished (snip). it was frustrating m8.

Hi Lakes - Mate you are talking about the sort of driving I do every day of my life (I'm just checking email and 10 mins away from jumping in the car for another 200 km day - just a short trip today, but where I'm going I will be driving through herds of roos so need to be a bit careful

I get where you are coming from, but it's not like this nowadays... Today's 4 cyls' (petrol and diesel) perform much better than the little clunkers of years gone by. I was easily overtaking cars on hills etc. in the 140-150 kph range yesterday - and please don't think this is driving dangerously, we have vastly different roads out here to urban roads and freeways. Most of the slower cars out here are the big 6's and V8's - usually Landcruisers or Patrols loaded up with a trailer and farm gear, or you get stuck behind a harvester, a semi or other implement.

Most of the people I know have small 4 cyl's because they are nippy and can overtake quickly - The engines of today have evolved!

[kinesiologykid]

[/quote]
Yep - but to be fair, remember petrol i30's are competing dfirectly with the best selling cars in the world - Mazda 3 and Toyota Corolla... for every new ULP i30 I see on the road, I see about 50 new Mazda 3's... Most petrol i30 buyers don't buy an i30... You need to be a little brave to buy an i30 in this market - Of course the diesel i30 competes in a different market to the petrol model. We can see from comments here that diesel buyers tend to have different priorities. Nothing at all wrong with that - comes back to personal choice again.[/quote]


And one main reason they sell more is - PERCEPTION
They are both very good cars, I have driven both a Corolla and a Mazda 1300 wagon on 4,000 km trips (in the 70's).
BUT the reason most people don't even consider Hyundai is PERCEPTION.
Quiz:
One of these cars, from 58 owner reviews, had only 10% saying they would not buy another.
One, from 81 reviews, had 37% saying they would not buy another.
Hyundai Getz
Mercedes A-Class

Which one of them had this review?:
The multi-jointed steering column wears out every 8,000 miles. My car is now on its fourth and even this one will need to be replaced shortly as it is beginning to clunk again. And this on a two year old car that has covered less than 24,000 miles.

The anti-roll bar links in the front suspension also wear very quickly. My car is now on its fifth set. This repair alone costs around £360 a pop.

The base of the driver's seat has been replaced twice to cure manic squeaking and creaking, and to stop the base sliding from side to side in corners by around 1cm. The seat now needs repaired yet again.

The felt trim on the inside of the tailgate constantly comes loose from the tailgate itself, because the plastic securing clips do not seem up to the job.

The bonnet release mechanism seized up and required another garage visit for it to be lubricated and released.

The fold-up child boosters, which are built into the rear seat, make a rattling and tinkling noise on bumps.

The alarm is very sensitive to doors being closed really firmly. It often goes off - usually about a mile after driving away. One then has to stop, switch off, get out the car to re-slam all the doors again, then hope that this has worked. This palaver can be dangerous in fast-flowing traffic.

http://www.carsurvey.org/

The best way to change perception is to actually write a review while you are on the site. Your comments do count. They changed my mind about Hyundai. There are now four i30 reviews, we need more for comparison. Car of the year is one thing, what owners think is also very important.

Even first impressions, then update later, a quick test drive really can't tell you everything, but driving around for a month or so you will know if this is the car for you. And yes we are all different, from hoons to geeks to bikies to old greenies who just want good economy!

[TheBunyip]

Hi Donc,

diesel being a higher C02 and particulate polluter than petrol,

An alternative view that says CO2 is better for the i30 Diesel..
CO2 Emissions for the Australian i30 range
1.6 Diesel 125g/Km Manual 159g/Km Auto
2.0 Petrol  170g/km Manual 182g/Km Auto

Taken from the Official figures here. http://www.greenvehicleguide.gov.au/GVGPublicUI/SearchResultsWebForm.aspx?CurrentTask=4081fb4b-717c-4f07-bc8c-7b5b4d37d529
CO2 remains better for the diesel and other petrol engines not available in Australia. Check them here. http://www.vcacarfueldata.org.uk/search/search.asp

My View ....ALL PM emission is undesirable and should be cut to as near zero as possible even if that means retro fitting improved filters to both petrol and diesel engines. I think we will all be digging into our pockets for upgrading existing  exhaust systems in the coming years.

True the i30 diesel does have a PM emission figure and none is quoted for the Petrol Engines.

Large Particle Diesel PM is highly visible to the layman and gets some very bad often undeserved publicity. I am fairly certain that only a small proportion of the general public are aware that there is a significant amount of dispute in the scientific community over Petrol and Diesel PM. The invisible micro fine Petrol PM is thought by some to be the big or should that be bigger Killer and not Diesel PM. (Much Petrol PM is formed from atmospheric chemical reactions between Exhaust Gases and organic carbon in the air. It seems that research into these problems is still at an early stage. I am not sure that the offending petrol exhaust gases have even been identified.) A growing body of medical research is being written up pointing out the serious damage to health from "Nano Particles". Diesel is often blamed by the researchers. When I read some of the papers that made it onto the Internet it became apparent that the source of the nano particles had not been identified. That work needs to be done. I suspect that Nano PM will become a big issue in a few years time when the research is further on. It looks to me as if Petrol will turn out to be the major source of Nano particle pollution. I do however reserve the right to be wrong.  :roll:

For the present time I think we would agree that the choice is not clear cut which I suspect is the reason that manufacturers offer both types of combustion engines. We all have to decide what will probably be better in a few years time when the next generation of fuels become generally available and your i30 is still only half way through its lifespan. As a result of my extensive reading it is this "old greenie's" (thanks kinesiologykid :? [/color]

[kinesiologykid]

Bunyip,
Very interesting post.

It seems we in Australia do not have the particle filter in the diesels.

So it looks like the figure of 125 gm measures something else, because that figure is the same in England and in Australia.

Would flying a filter out from Korea or England negate any good they may do?

[donc]

An alternative view that says CO2 is better for the i30 Diesel..
CO2 Emissions for the Australian i30 range 1.6 Diesel 125g/Km Manual 159g/Km Auto 2.0 Petrol  170g/km Manual 182g/Km Auto

Hi Bunyip - Agreed - and it's not really an alternate view because I didn't cite the i30 as example - I think I actually made observation relating to the relevance of comparing a 1.6 diesel to a 2.0 litre ULP. We don't have the 2.0 litre diesel in Australia (or the 1.6 ULP) so hard to make a valid comparison.

My View ....ALL PM emission is undesirable and should be cut to as near zero as possible even if that means retro fitting improved filters to both petrol and diesel engines (big snip)

An interesting perspective and certainly some challenging references - Just to be upfront on this point, I don't profess to have expertise in the science of gas analysis, plus the bias and accuracy of the referenced authors and docs is unknown... My comments come from the experience of working in the underground mining sector. As I'm sure you appreciate gas analysis is at the fore of our technical requirements (legislative as well as moral and ethical) and we regularly work with CSIRO, local and international universities and government agencies on ways to reduce particulate pollution due to the known health impacts (evidenced by particulate pollution disease and deaths in other industries; most notably asbestos). This is something to be managed at the highest levels in the workplace. This is also why we engage scientists in this field on staff. One of my best friends is a mine gas analyst (masters qualified) who assures me, at this point in time, the science is very much supportive of acknowledging a significant risk associated with diesel particulate matter. It is much worse than the particulates emitted by the combustion of ULP.

Whether or not other people in the scientific community wish to challenge this view is way above my head and knowledge! - but for now I do support the view of people who work with this issue every day and get paid a lot of money to know what they are talking about