[Keith]

Blimey that's really bad 
What happened in Australia? Even here our Hells Angels seem to have mellowed, well on the surface at least. Sounds like the Lucky Country is turning into Mad Max land! Trouble is, won't taking the suggested action further alienate the gangs and almost give them justification to step even further away from society's rules?

[Doggie 1]

What's the alternative? Stand back and let them go for it? 
No, constant pressure is what they need and continual heavy policing is what they understand.
OMCGs don't run this country - they might think they do, but when they get twenty years inside I guess it gives them time to reflect.
You can't reason with them when they think they're invincible.

[Keith]

But surely that should apply to any / all violent tossers with organised crime and drugs involvement? Or do non bikies of a similar mentality get dispensation from this law crackdown?

[Surferdude]

But surely that should apply to any / all violent tossers with organised crime and drugs involvement? Or do non bikies of a similar mentality get dispensation from this law crackdown?

The law is applied wherever needed.
I think the difference is that "organised" crime, whilst it may have tentacles everywhere, has a smaller public footprint. The days of pitched street battles a la Al Capone annd Chicago have morphed into occasioanl killings, (which may be oversimplifyng it).
But outlaw criminal motorcycle gangs can and do gather large numbers in public places where, once violence breaks out, the red mist ( ) takes over and woe betide any poor member of the public who gets in the way.
If you're interested in the history of bikie violence in this country, research The Milperra Massacre.
6 bikies and a 14 y/o female bystander dead after a shootout at a pub in a Sydney pub.

[Lester]

I also like "motorcycle enthusiast" 

Rusty, spot on, that is the term for 'responsible, law abiding motor cycle rider.''

'Bikies'  are often of the criminal element or on the fringe of it.   I am afraid too many of our Australian Motor Cycle Gangs think they are Yanks, where the Bikie thing started.

Now our English friends will tell us all about the Mods and the Rockers of the 60's, you know the
Vespa/Lambretta Riders v. The Triumph/Norton mob.

[Lester]

But surely that should apply to any / all violent tossers with organised crime and drugs involvement? Or do non bikies of a similar mentality get dispensation from this law crackdown?

The law is applied wherever needed.
I think the difference is that "organised" crime, whilst it may have tentacles everywhere, has a smaller public footprint. The days of pitched street battles a la Al Capone annd Chicago have morphed into occasioanl killings, (which may be oversimplifyng it).
But outlaw criminal motorcycle gangs can and do gather large numbers in public places where, once violence breaks out, the red mist ( ) takes over and woe betide any poor member of the public who gets in the way.
If you're interested in the history of bikie violence in this country, research The Milperra Massacre.
6 bikies and a 14 y/o female bystander dead after a shootout at a pub in a Sydney pub.

Ah, the Milperra Massacre at the Viking Tavern in 1984, I was there in person, on duty with the cavalry. It remains in my memory.

[rustynutz]

Just getting back to the original subject....
Would it still be acceptable to alter legislation to deny Aboriginal people from bail?
Would it be acceptable to deny them bail for any offence committed whatsoever?
If the answer is no, then why is it ok to single out another minority group for special treatment?
Regardless of whether some of these people are thugs, we as a people should surely be treated the same in the eyes of the law.... 

I still remember the bad old days of getting pulled up out on the road for no other reason than I was on a motorcycle, is this the sort of behaviour we're wanting a return to? Going by the comments so far, it would appear so....
Put it another way, would you be happy to be constantly pulled up just because you happened to be driving an i30?
I suspect not... 

[Phil №❶]

Rusty, the mention of Aboriginal's is not remotely related to your argument and ill advised IMO. There are many races represented in the bail situation and they are all treated equally, condemned by association, not race.

Officially, Australia is an anti racist country and government department's, including Police, are ordered to follow this policy.

[Dazzler]

Rusty only used Aboriginals to make a point. I can see Rusty's point but I think common sense would prevail for this legislation. I'm sure those bikers that are not a threat to society would still get bail. They have to do something to stop these guys!

[Doggie 1]

But surely that should apply to any / all violent tossers with organised crime and drugs involvement? Or do non bikies of a similar mentality get dispensation from this law crackdown?

No, they don't.
I can assure you that over here, all organised gangs get the same attention.
That is why we have an Gang Crime Squad.
Definitely not just the bikies.

[rustynutz]

Thanks Daz... 

The issue though is a particular class of people are being singled out and being denied their legal rights. What about all the other thugs and nutters out there committing similar offenses, they aren't being denied bail unless of course there are risks to the general public, which is exactly the same for these bikies as things stand.
What makes bikies so different to anyone else that they warrant "preferential treatment"?

As you can see in that link I posted earlier, ordinary motorcyclists are being dragged into this "witch hunt", is this acceptable?
There are a number of bike clubs such as the Ulysses and God's Squad that wear cut offs, and club patches, hell, even I wore cut offs years ago and I've never been a "bikie". Is it fair that these groups will be getting pulled up for no other reason that they look similar to a "bikie"?

I suspect that if "bikies" drove cars instead of motorcycles, we wouldn't be seeing cars being pulled up willy nilly with drivers being questioned & photographed as they are now doing with motorcyclists.....

[Surferdude]

I have no problem being pulled up in RBTs which happens fairly often. If that helps in the battle to keep drink drivers off the road, fine.
If I was on a bike and got pulled up in nets aimed at reducing the incidence of bikie violence and crimes, not a problem.

It's the price law abiding citizens pay for the ar*eholes in society.
And the laxity of the judiciary.

BTW. I'm happy to pay more if our prisons are fille dup with criminals who are sentenced to a fair and equitable incarceration for their crimes.

[Just Rick]

Followed this thread with interest and sat back and said nothing,until SD's last post,I can see everyones argument,while I can argree and disagree with different veiws,something has to be done.

My past is my past,to be continually pulled aside because,I either look like someone else,or the fact sometimes I do not dress like everyone else and I have done absolutely nothing illegal wears very thin sometimes,as for Justice in Australia,it simply does not exist,those who should be inside are not and those who have committed what I would consider stupid mistakes or misjudgements are in on remand.

The system here is supposed to be,Innocent UNTIL proven guilty,but in reality,it is exactly the opposite,you certainly ARE GUILTY until proven innocent,anyone who says and thinks differrently are simply living in a fantasy world

[Aussie Keith]

@rusty, I'll point back to my earlier comment and a thing that sh!tz me about whining about civil liberties. They are there to protect the community at large, not serve the interests of individuals. That's an important point often overlooked.

I'm going to make an analogy here. Many years ago I belonged to the Alfa Romeo car owners club. In conducting our activities and events, not once did we encounter police interest. And yet those who hoon and engage in street racing are under a very tight watch. Laws exist to impound and destroy cars of those found to have broken the laws and they are enforced. I am sure if I were in an assembly of those partaking in illegal street racing I'd be asked for identification and my car would get the once over by the police which is fair enough. It comes with the territory. 

That normal people choose to associate in similar organisations to criminal motorcycle gangs and potentially get caught up in police activity is a concern. I suggest they take it up with the CMG and sort out their individual identities so that the police can discern who is a criminal and who is a legit recreational motorcyclist. And to be fair, I think the police know the difference all right. Until then, legitimate recreational motorcyclists may well cop it in the neck from time to time by association which is a personal choice. If it saves innocent people from being shot and all the other crap that comes from these CMG's, I think that's a fair price.

[Aussie Keith]

@Rick, your talking about profiling. Its problematic. As yet no one has a solution to this. On the other point, lets look at the very well known Peter Foster who is currently on the run again because they didn't remand him. I think real life is more complicated than we think in the realm of those who deal with this stuff every day. 

[rustynutz]

But surely that should apply to any / all violent tossers with organised crime and drugs involvement? Or do non bikies of a similar mentality get dispensation from this law crackdown?

This legislation will only apply to bikies......other non riding crims will get bail if they are not considered a flight risk etc etc...

A clear case of discrimination.... 

[rustynutz]

That normal people choose to associate in similar organisations to criminal motorcycle gangs and potentially get caught up in police activity is a concern.

I've been scratching my head trying to work out what you mean with this comment, can you elaborate? 

[Aussie Keith]

Yes indeed. Consider this truism, if it walks like a duck, sounds like a duck and looks like a duck, it's probably a duck.

So recreational motorcyclists who choose to dress and look like criminal motorcycle gangs or actually associate with/be part of criminal motorcycle gangs are doing themselves no favours. Not all do I know. But those that do are just asking for trouble. See my earlier comment on profiling.

These guys are OK: http://www.ulyssesclub.org/

These guys as part of a criminal motorcycle gang, not so much: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/police-pull-over-black-uhlan-bikies-on-national-run-20131010-2vblo.html

See, you can have a good time on a motorbike without being hassled by the police. I hope that clears it up for you.

[Aussie Keith]

But surely that should apply to any / all violent tossers with organised crime and drugs involvement? Or do non bikies of a similar mentality get dispensation from this law crackdown?

This legislation will only apply to bikies......other non riding crims will get bail if they are not considered a flight risk etc etc...

A clear case of discrimination.... 

Let me reframe this discussion. Please explain how you propose to protect the community at large from violent crime and other effects of criminal activities these groups are known to participate in?

Whats your solution?

[Doggie 1]

That's pretty much it.
You can ride a motorbike in a group or you can join a group who sometimes ride motorbikes.
Your choice.
The police are fully aware of who's who in the zoo.
It's quite funny how OMCGs are now talking to motorbike riders who ride Japanese bikes (to further their own cause) because ordinarily they'd rather die than do so.
OMCGs allow only American or British iron and often have ritual burnings of stolen Jap bikes at their gatherings.

[asathorny]

If I get my Honda 50 from the back of the garage and dust off my skid lid I could pass as a biker, couldn't I ???

On a  more serious note, I used to love my Lambreta (SP?) back in the day.  And yes, it was a babe magnate.  I lived in the nurses home in London when I was a student, and didn't need much of a babe magnet cos lots of them lovelies where determined to make sure I wasn't a homosexual.  I accepted their educational tutorials without any form of resistance.

AAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, those were the days 

[Doggie 1]

Some of those scooters are worth serious money these days.

[Dazzler]

But surely that should apply to any / all violent tossers with organised crime and drugs involvement? Or do non bikies of a similar mentality get dispensation from this law crackdown?

This legislation will only apply to bikies......other non riding crims will get bail if they are not considered a flight risk etc etc...

A clear case of discrimination.... 

Let me reframe this discussion. Please explain how you propose to protect the community at large from violent crime and other effects of criminal activities these groups are known to participate in?

Whats your solution?

Rusty would just tell 'em "on yer bike mate" 

[asathorny]

Some of those scooters are worth serious money these days.

That was the only engine I ever blew up, or even knew to be blown up (notwithstanding apocraphyl stories)....    I was off to the Farnborough air show crica 1967...   I hadn't put any sump oil in all summer.  I was just wondering what that loud banging noise was, was there someone hitting an anvil near by, when crash bang wallop the back wheel skidded us to a standstill right outside Windsor Castle.     

I ripped off the number plates and other means of identification and dump it in the ditch close to the Castle wall and as far as I know it's still there, if anyone wants it 

[Doggie 1]

 

[beerman]

Yes indeed. Consider this truism, if it walks like a duck, sounds like a duck and looks like a duck, it's probably a duck.

So recreational motorcyclists who choose to dress and look like criminal motorcycle gangs or actually associate with/be part of criminal motorcycle gangs are doing themselves no favours. Not all do I know. But those that do are just asking for trouble. See my earlier comment on profiling.

These guys are OK: http://www.ulyssesclub.org/

These guys as part of a criminal motorcycle gang, not so much: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/police-pull-over-black-uhlan-bikies-on-national-run-20131010-2vblo.html

See, you can have a good time on a motorbike without being hassled by the police. I hope that clears it up for you.

I thought the Ulysses had decided not to wear Rockers a few of their members having been harassed by CMG members who were aggrieved at their wearing them.

Oh another comment further up about 'red mist' more likely to be roid rage.

[Aussie Keith]

And yet the police see fit to constantly pull them over and identify them as a criminal motorcycle gang. So my point again, why would anyone in their right mind associate with that group or any group like them or dress like them if all they want is to socialise on their bikes? Its just painting a big target on their foreheads.

[Doggie 1]

The police will constantly pull them over to maintain up-to-date intel on who's who and who's where.
Their individual movements are monitored and recorded once they are a part of an OMCG.

[rustynutz]

But surely that should apply to any / all violent tossers with organised crime and drugs involvement? Or do non bikies of a similar mentality get dispensation from this law crackdown?

This legislation will only apply to bikies......other non riding crims will get bail if they are not considered a flight risk etc etc...

A clear case of discrimination.... 

Let me reframe this discussion. Please explain how you propose to protect the community at large from violent crime and other effects of criminal activities these groups are known to participate in?

Whats your solution?

Yes indeed. Consider this truism, if it walks like a duck, sounds like a duck and looks like a duck, it's probably a duck.

So if you ride a motorcycle, you must be a bikie...yeah right. 

It's easy to see most on here don't ride otherwise you'd have some idea...  

[Doggie 1]

On my way back to Perth from Rockingham this afternoon, quite heavy traffic, everyone doing the right thing and sitting on 100 km/h on the Kwinana Freeway northbound, then the bikies started coming through. 
Not bikers, motorcycle enthusiasts or motorbike riders. Bikies.
All on their Harleys, doing 130-140 km/h, overtaking on the left (in the emergency lane), on the right (the freeway shoulder), flying in and out between cars right up the middle.
Total, flagrant disregard for any laws.
And they wonder why people don't like them......
Morons, the lot of them.