[Dazzler]

genuine hyundai oil is shell oil... and the genuine branded one is like $80something

i bought it once, ill never buy it again.... nissan genuine oil on the other hand.... ill get that anyday!

my dealer uses castrol magnatech,they all use a different oil brand.  

we took both cars in for their 21.500km service thismorning and was informed they don't use the 5/w30 castrol oil anymore,now its shell 10/w40 because its a better oil for the i30 petrol engine.  

and probably better for their pockets too  

genuine hyundai oil is shell oil... and the genuine branded one is like $80something

i bought it once, ill never buy it again.... nissan genuine oil on the other hand.... ill get that anyday!

my dealer uses castrol magnatech,they all use a different oil brand.  

we took both cars in for their 21.500km service thismorning and was informed they don't use the 5/w30 castrol oil anymore,now its shell 10/w40 because its a better oil for the i30 petrol engine.  

and probably better for their pockets too  

+1

Honestly mate, there is little point doing an intermediate service (which is just an oil/filter change) if you are going to pay someone else to do it. They will just use crap oil knowing it only needs to last 7,500Km. Actually, I'm sure they all just use whatever is the cheapest they can get away with, no matter how long it's in for.

I have promoted here the idea to supply your own "best" oil each 15,000Km (or whatever) and in addition to do your own intermediate changes. And in case you have forgotten I don't bother to change the filter and I don't drain from the sump... altogether too messy! Suck it out... with apologies

[Rocket]

After reading through this thread there is no way my local dealer is going to do the oil changes on the i30. Shudder at the thought they could use magnatech oil.

Just did an oil change on the car. It has just turned over to 10,000 klm and according to the books the last oil change was 8 months ago at 2,500klm. Here is a photo of the oil that came out of the car -



It is a bit too dirty looking for me.

Found that it does indeed take the standard Hyundai oil filter. Bought a pack of 10 from the local dealer a few months back. Cost $120 plus $10 for ten crush washers. Amazing that in the USA they pay only about $7 for each filter. Even oil in the USA is about 60% less than we pay for it in Australia.
Dazzler, I will have to keep the eyes open for thoise special prices. $40 would be sweet.

Will change the oil and filter myself every 7,500klm. It really is an easy job on these cars. From looking under the car this morning - everything appears to be very straightforward on these cars. The more i see of these Hyundais - the more i like them. ( except for that crappy feeling steering wheel on the base model.)

Rocket.

[rustynutz]

Bad news....
I contacted Harold from performancelub the other day about when he was likely to be getting more German Castrol 0w30 and he told me that Castrol Syntec has been phased out by Castrol USA. It's no longer available......

What a bugger....

Bad news....
I contacted Harold from performancelub the other day about when he was likely to be getting more German Castrol 0w30 and he told me that Castrol Syntec has been phased out by Castrol USA. It's no longer available......

What a bugger....

I've only got one more change left. I'm sure there are reasonable (if not even better ) alternatives but so long as they actually make GC it must be available somewhere.

I've looked for it several times from an on-line source from EUR but... 

[Master_Scythe]

Look up reviews for Castrol EDGE on BITOG website;

It constantly shows 'almost no addatives' but always shows FANTASTIC UOA's.

Meaning they're doing SOMETHING very very right!

It'd be my next choice; and cheap too!

[eyecon]

Good stuff Master Scythe. Are you referring to 5W-30?

[rustynutz]

Thanks Master Scythe....I might have a sticky at that....My 15,000k service is fast coming up so need to make a decision soon as to what I'm gonna use...

See HERE to find what oil is suitable for the i30:

Look up reviews for Castrol EDGE on BITOG website;

It constantly shows 'almost no addatives' but always shows FANTASTIC UOA's.

Meaning they're doing SOMETHING very very right!

It'd be my next choice; and cheap too!

just be careful that you are buying the one you think you are. For instance, Castrol make a 0w30 called Syntec in USA which is not the same as the German oil of the same name and viscosity. It has been shown to inferior.

In the Edge range (and again there may be differences between oil of the same name in different countries) the 0w40 is I believe the superior oil and the price reflects that over the 5w30.

[Master_Scythe]

A good point, however it seems the product IS the same.

If you can find CASTROL EDGE (non-sport) its what you want. SPORT is low carbon for DPF (which we dont need). But its CERTAINLY not made anymore.

0-40W is, indeed, the better formula, however 40 Sheer weight is not needed. and in Australia, 0W can be too thin in the summer.

But you're right, both are suitable, 0-40W is 'better' overall, but have a good research on BITOG and decide which is better for your environment.

Personally; i'll be going 50% 5-30, 50% 0-40. Though not everyone is happy mixing; have a read. BITOG is GOLD.

0-40W is, indeed, the better formula, however 40 Sheer weight is not needed. and in Australia, 0W can be too thin in the summer.

You need to be careful when talking about a weight being too thick or too thin: the actual viscosity is more important than the range of viscosity (weight). The difference between a 30 and a 40 might be virtually none. Having said that, in terms of lubrication, the difference between even disprit viscosity 30/40 weight oil is probably insignificant.

More importantly: Your statement that 0w might be too thin is a real misunderstanding.

The value before the "w" is not a viscosity per se but a measure of its ability to flow at colder (starting) temperatures. There has not been an oil made yet that is "too thin" when cold. Quite to the contrary, they are all "too thick" at starting temperatures - even in the hottest parts of Australia. Oil does not get to normal viscosity until it aproaches 100c. A fair bit hotter than pretty much anywhere.

It's more complicated than this but any oil that can boast "0w" will almost certainly be a superior oil because it's really hard to make the "0w cold flow" spec and still maintain the "hot" viscosity.

It's for this reason 0w can only be attained by a synthetic oil, and by the "best" at that.

So don't think 0w is too thin. On the contrary it's often the best you can get.

[Master_Scythe]

Very true.
Problem was that I was trying to 'skim' the topic without typing ALL that out, lol. Thank you for doing it

Cold flow weight matters because of 'clearance' how much space there is between parts to let oil lubricate; If n oil is TOO thin when cold, It'll ALL run back to the bottom of the sump and you really will be 'starting dry' *shudder*

If an oil is too thin, even at cold, (which, outside industrial equipment, i know is almost a non-case) then it'll be 'pushed out' of the clearance or fail to be pumped correctly.

Between 0W and 5W, who cares, you're totally right. and a 0W will always be 'Synthetic' yes, this however doesnt mean its 'good synthetic'. It can still be Base3 Hydrocracked synthetic (so chemically modified dino oil), and in a turbo application (say, the diesels) the 'hot weight' (or, shear point) is quite important.

I'd assume anyone who has done significant power increasing work on their car to be running 0-40 (for the higher film strength), and everyone else to be 5-30 (for warranty).

Because I'll be diesel chipping, and quite a few other little things, which I'll be keeping a build log for when i do, I'll be doing a 50\50mix, (same company and same range, so good chance its the same addative formula), adding a small ammount of Zinc and Phospherous, and an increase of Moly.

If Castrol EDGE Sport is good enough for the Bugatti Veyron, its good enough for me.

Very true.
Problem was that I was trying to 'skim' the topic without typing ALL that out, lol. Thank you for doing it

I agree it's easy to oversimplify.

Cold flow weight matters because of 'clearance' how much space there is between parts to let oil lubricate; If n oil is TOO thin when cold, It'll ALL run back to the bottom of the sump and you really will be 'starting dry' *shudder*

I'm not sure this is correct: An oil film without oil flow will be of very limited advantage. As soon as pressure is applied to the lubrication site the oil will be "squeezed" out. Oil flow is required to continuously replenish the oil. Therefore oil flow is the dominant requirement at starting (and at all times) which again is dependant on its viscosity.

If an oil is too thin, even at cold, (which, outside industrial equipment, i know is almost a non-case) then it'll be 'pushed out' of the clearance or fail to be pumped correctly.

An motor oil too thin at operating temperature will have been chosen poorly. An oil cannot be too thin when cold.

Between 0W and 5W, who cares, you're totally right. and a 0W will always be 'Synthetic' yes, this however doesnt mean its 'good synthetic'. It can still be Base3 Hydrocracked synthetic (so chemically modified dino oil), and in a turbo application (say, the diesels) the 'hot weight' (or, shear point) is quite important.

Agree, that the absolute difference between 0w and 5w is minimal. However as I said, to achieve 0w an oil will in most cases be a (better) quality oil and will almost certainly use base 4/5 in large quantities. The well respected Mobil 0w40 does, I understand, have some group 3 oil but it's unlikely a 0w oil can be made completely with group 3. Group 3 oils are second best oils, even though in practice they are perfectly adequate.

I'd assume anyone who has done significant power increasing work on their car to be running 0-40 (for the higher film strength), and everyone else to be 5-30 (for warranty).

This might be a case of over simplification.

Because I'll be diesel chipping, and quite a few other little things, which I'll be keeping a build log for when i do, I'll be doing a 50\50mix, (same company and same range, so good chance its the same addative formula), adding a small ammount of Zinc and Phospherous, and an increase of Moly.

If Castrol EDGE Sport is good enough for the Bugatti Veyron, its good enough for me.

I admire your desire to get the oil right and I'm sure you will.

[rustynutz]

Well, now I'm totally confused...... :-\

Went into my local Autobarn today to see if they sold Castrol Edge 0W40 (they did), ended up talking to the store owner (& his son) who proceeded to rubbish Castrol and recommended Nulon 5W30.
His son actually has an i30 crdi and this is the oil he uses and he swears by it. His ol' man said that his son could use any oil he liked as he got it for free, but this is the one he chooses because, in their opinion, it's the best......

He also told me some yarn about Castrol & Valvoline taking Nulon to Court over Nulon's advertising of their "AAT" additive and their claims of less friction than other oils.
Anyhow, the story goes that Nulon won and Castrol & Co had to pay costs..blah blah blah.

After being told all this, I decided to see if anything came up by doing a Google search.....Nothing! So, has anyone else heard of this Court Case or is it a whole lot of baloney?


Oh, on the bright side, while doing a search I came upon this video.....

[Dazzler]

Well, now I'm totally confused...... :-\

Went into my local Autobarn today to see if they sold Castrol Edge 0W40 (they did), ended up talking to the store owner (& his son) who proceeded to rubbish Castrol and recommended Nulon 5W30.
His son actually has an i30 crdi and this is the oil he uses and he swears by it. His ol' man said that his son could use any oil he liked as he got it for free, but this is the one he chooses because, in their opinion, it's the best......

He also told me some yarn about Castrol & Valvoline taking Nulon to Court over Nulon's advertising of their "AAT" additive and their claims of less friction than other oils.
Anyhow, the story goes that Nulon won and Castrol & Co had to pay costs..blah blah blah.

After being told all this, I decided to see if anything came up by doing a Google search.....Nothing! So, has anyone else heard of this Court Case or is it a whole lot of baloney?


Oh, on the bright side, while doing a search I came upon this video.....

Gee that throws the cat among the pigeons 

[2i30s]

 to gain 10kw is a lot,and at only $60 a bottle. 

[2i30s]

10kw =13.596hp.  so to gain that amount of kw/hp I'd estimate you would need to spend around $500 on a decent exhaust and around $150 on a cold air intake. $650 compared to $60 is a big difference.  i may investigate the nulon oil a bit i think.   

[2i30s]

go onto you tube and type in NULON TOUR,very interesting.    and an Australian made and owned company. 

[Master_Scythe]

Oh god, nulon. This is a topic thats always...'interesting'.

Their name was ruined after adding teflon to their oils (a material that only bonds, or even gets soft, at over 1000DegC) It was essentially added grit ><.

That has since been removed, and, as is god in this topic (in my oppinion of course) look up Nulon brand oils on BITOG. A few reviews showing "its OK" but never anything to rave about. Every comparison video for nulon has a fault (i'll find some examples when I get time).

The reason I suggested the Edge Sport, was several:

1. no measurable additives (zink, moly, etc. means they're using fully synthetic products)
2. With no base metals, my blending of zinc, ph, and moly I like to do is unlike;y to 'unbalance' the mix.
3. Constant good UOA's (i dont think i found one that has been 'bad' yet. one or 2 "if"s, thats all)
4. Cheaper than MOST of the other big brands by a fair bit. (Mobil1? Bugger off!)
5. I honestly believe oil that stands even 10 minutes in the Bugati Veyron speed testing needs praise

Anyone who has a few spare hours and wants to look through BITOG is more than welcome to dispute with me, i LOVE this topic. And if anyone finds solid proof (and i dont care about POWER if its not lubricating) I'd love to hear it. Remember power means little unless you're racing and rebuilding often. Things as thin as baby oil will show power gain due to less resistance on the moving parts, but its only so long before that oil breaks down, parts seize and you need a rebuild.

If you can find SOLID proof on the use of nulon as an oil company, I'd love to support an  aussie company. Its also cheap, comes in nice looking bottles (lol), and seems to be everywhere. Power is a meh subject remember unless it has a UOA to back up that its not grinding away at your internals.

In my oppinion, the 'upcoming' company to watch is Gulf Western. They seem to be making some very amazing and VERY cheap proucts. Along with this they release the most detail i've been able to find (such as what base stock their oils are etc). They're the guys to watch.....

get back to me if you find decent info on Nulon, i'm interested.

[rustynutz]

I've been on BITOG a number of times, done a search for Nulon 5w30 diesel and come up with zilch everytime..... :-\

[rustynutz]

Here are the specs for Nulon 5W30

Typical Characteristics

SAE  5W-30
KV @ 100°C (cSt) 12.20
KV @ 40°C (cSt) 70.80
Viscosity Index, ASTM D 2270 173
Density @ 15°C kg/L 0.8524
Total Base #, mg KOH/g, ASTM D 2896 7.2
Pour Point, °C, ASTM D 97 -33
Phosphorus Maximum % 0.098

Approvals and specifications

Meets or exceeds the following oil industry specifications:

  American Petroleum Institute: API CF/SM
  European: ACEA C3-08, A5/B5-04
  Society of Automotive Engineers: SAE 5W-30

Meets or exceeds the performance requirements of the following vehicle manufacturer’s specifications:
  BMW: LL-04
  Mercedes Benz: MB 229.51
  General Motors: GM Dexos 2®
  Volkswagen: VW 502.00, 505.00, 505.01

Meets or exceeds other manufacturer’s requirements including:

•  Ford
•  Holden
•  Hyundai
•  Land Rover
•  Mitsubishi
•  Nissan
•  Subaru
•  Range Rover
•  Ssangyong
•  Toyota

 
And here are the specs for Castrol EDGE Sport 0W40

TYPICAL CHARACTERISTICS
 

 
PERFORMANCE LEVELS
 
•  American Petroleum Institute (API) Service Classifications: Petrol : SM, (SL, SJ, SH and all superseded classifications):
 
Diesel : CF
 
•  Association of Constructors of Europèan Automobiles (ACEA):
 
  A3 (Stay-in-grade, extended drain intervals for high performance petrol engines).
  B3 (Stay-in-grade for high performance indirect injection diesel engines).
  B4 (Stay-in-grade for modern high performance direct injection diesel engines).
  C2 (Fuel efficient stay-in-grade, high performance, catalyst compatible for both petrol and diesel engines including those with DPF*). 
  C3 (Stay-in-grade high performance, extended drain intervals, catalyst compatible for petrol and diesel engines including those with DPF*).
 
* DPF = Diesel Particulate Filter
 
  BMW Longlife 04.
  Mercedes Benz 229.31, 229.51 approved.
  Porsche approved – all vehicles except Cayenne (V6).
  VW 502.00, 503.01 and 505.00 approved.
 

[2i30s]

great posts MS and Russ.    i actually thought about oil giving hp gains if it was like baby oil, or even cooking oil.   

[rustynutz]

I'm not sure what it all means, Steve...but I figure Master_Scythe  or Pip will explain it......hopefully...

Things as thin as baby oil will show power gain due to less resistance on the moving parts, but its only so long before that oil breaks down, parts seize and you need a rebuild.

So because the Nulon came out on top on the dyno you're suggesting that it may be thinner than the other oils tested?
Could it not be due to Nulon's AAT formulation, which the company claims has 42% less friction?  :-\

[2i30s]

that's also a possibility Russ.but as i posted above,it needs a bit more looking into. IMHO. 

[paul]

Now you have opened up a can of worms,
I personally want longevity from my engine 300,000 miles plus, if to achieve this i have to sacrifice 10kw of power so be it. I don't know if these utube video's are sponsored/ rigged or legit, so until conclusive evidence is presented i will stick to my theory of regular intermediate oil changes, which DID get me 300,000 out of my last diesel,which was still going strong when i sold it !

[2i30s]

sorry Paul,but most of my posts have that effect.  :-\

.. I personally want longevity from my engine 300,000 miles plus...

Me too; however not everyone has the same want...

Some might just want to do the minimum to satisfy the warranty needs until they pass the car on well before any trouble with longevity would show. Cheapest oil, longest OCI suits them. For these people any benefit with mileage (even if at the expense of the engine) might be desirable. For the rest of us, other qualities are more important.  

For those other people (with an Aussie CRDi - no DPF) I heartily recommend Castrol Edge Sport 5w30. For the short time I used it it gave excellent economy and dealers seem happy to use it as it's B4 as needed. For us... no, based on nothing more than how "rattly" the engine sounded and how cheaply it must be to make because it's almost given away.

I'm still undecided what to use next after the GC dries up but after having eschewed any C3 (low SAPS) oil as being unnecessary, I'm revisiting that. I've been reading some stuff suggesting the inlet valves and seats can get a build up of carbon, indirectly related to the direct injection. Without the cleaning effect of the fuel entering via the manifold, junk from the exhaust (EGR) can deposit and also potentially break off, enter the chambers and score the bores. Reducing the ash by using a low or mid SAPS oil may have a side benefit other than to preserve the DPF/CAT. This opens up more choices because low ash oil is where it's all going.

EDIT: And just to add, the low sulphur used in Oz diesel also allows lower SAPS oils to be used. These additives are in part used to counter the sulphur and would be required more in countries with less strict control of sulphur content.

WRT Nulon: I'm not prepared to risk it even though it might be very good for all I know. The one listed above is not B4 (so is not correct for CRDi) but is B5. B5 does not supercede B4. B4 relates to High Temperature/High Shear (HT/HS) and is a measure of how the oil holds its grade (i.e., does not shear) at high temperature. This I suspect is particularly critical for the turbo bearings which will get very hot causing a localised superheating of the oil.

[rustynutz]

WRT Nulon: I'm not prepared to risk it even though it might be very good for all I know. The one listed above is not B4 (so is not correct for CRDi) but is B5. B5 does not supercede B4. B4 relates to High Temperature/High Shear (HT/HS) and is a measure of how the oil holds its grade (i.e., does not shear) at high temperature. This I suspect is particularly critical for the turbo bearings which will get very hot causing a localised superheating of the oil.

Interesting that you should say this, Pip as I was just reading Valvoline's "The Essential Guide To Motor Oil" and they had this to say:

B Category (passenger car diesel engines)

The B category is similarly divided with the exception
that the B4 classification for direct injection passenger
diesel engines has been established and that the B5
classification combines the performance requirements
of B3 and B4 in a lower viscosity fuel efficient oil.

WRT Nulon: I'm not prepared to risk it even though it might be very good for all I know. The one listed above is not B4 (so is not correct for CRDi) but is B5. B5 does not supercede B4. B4 relates to High Temperature/High Shear (HT/HS) and is a measure of how the oil holds its grade (i.e., does not shear) at high temperature. This I suspect is particularly critical for the turbo bearings which will get very hot causing a localised superheating of the oil.

Interesting that you should say this, Pip as I was just reading Valvoline's "The Essential Guide To Motor Oil" and they had this to say:

B Category (passenger car diesel engines)

The B category is similarly divided with the exception
that the B4 classification for direct injection passenger
diesel engines has been established and that the B5
classification combines the performance requirements
of B3 and B4 in a lower viscosity fuel efficient oil.

http://www.acea.be/images/uploads/files/20090105_081211_ACEA_Oil_Sequences_Final.pdf

Check Page 7 lab test 1.3. The values for HT/HS are mutually exclusive. It would be impossible for and oil to be both B4 and B5 for this specification (except at a HT/HS of exactly 3.5  ). I haven't found any Valvoline oil I liked either.

If you think about what B4 is trying to be (among other things) is a robust oil that won't thin at high temps. And B5 is trying to be a skinny oil to give greater economy... they're pulling in opposite directions. B1 is more likely to be aligned with B5.

That's how I read it anyway.

Don't use B5.

[rustynutz]

Thanks for that, Pip....

Just had a look at the Nulon 5W30 Euro Diesel, and that appears to be ok....yes?

Nulon 5W30 Euro Diesel

Typical Characteristics
SAE   5W-30
KV @ 100°C (cSt) 11.40
KV @ 40°C (cSt) 68.60
Viscosity Index, ASTM D 2270 160
Density @ 15°C kg/L 0.8490
Total Base #, mg KOH/g, ASTM D 2896 6.6
Pour Point, °C, ASTM D 97 -33

Approvals and specifications
Meets or exceeds the following oil industry specifications:
•  European: ACEA A3/B4-04
•  Society of Automotive Engineers: SAE 5W-30
Meets or exceeds the performance requirements of the
following vehicle manufacturer’s specifications:
•  Volkswagen: VW 504.00, VW 507.00
•  BMW:  Long Drain LL-04
•  Mercedes Benz : 229.51
Meets or exceeds other manufacturer’s requirements including:
•  Audi
•  BMW
•  Mercedes Benz
•  Toyota
•  Volkswagen