[Dazzler]

Some good arguments on either side 

The cost of being involved in overseas conflicts is two fold of course (with the loss of life as well) There are always arguments for and against being involved 

I am with Dave and Trev on the money krudd (and Gillard) have been throwing around to make themselves look good though   

[Ugly Mongrel]

An interesting take on Tony Abbott's volunteering escapades to indigenous communities.

http://1deadlynation.wordpress.com/2013/08/13/abbott-the-truth-and-cost-of-his-indigenous-volunteering/

[Eureka]

The experience of our soldiers returning from Vietnam must have been an indication of the split in the community over our involvement in that war. 

Iraq: if ever there was a war that we should not have been involved in, that's it.  Little Johnnie.  What a turd.

[rustynutz]

Must admit, at the time I supported Little Johnny's decision to get involved in Iraq... 

[Eureka]

What do you think now, with the benefit of hindsight and all that we now know about the non-existent WMD?

On the way back from Ballarat yesterday, radio on ABC, it's a couple of minutes to 6 pm and I hear Tony Abbott.  Sounds like an election ad.  I thought: what the f*** is this shi*?  The ABC doesn't have ads, does it?  Then I thought that they must be doing the 'ad' thing for each party in the lead-up to the election. 

I turned it off immediately.

[Phil №❶]

What do you think now, with the benefit of hindsight and all that we now know about the non-existent WMD?

We also have a non-existent Saddam Hussein. It was worth it IMO.

[rustynutz]

Still think it was the right decision, even if there were no WMD's....
With his war crimes and mass slaughter of his own people, Saddam needed to be taken down...

[Eureka]

We should never have been involved in the invasion of Iraq in 2003.  It was complete bullsh*t, a classic case of the manipulation of the masses - although there were large protests here and in Europe and the political leaders totally ignored them.  Here, it was back to the 60s and all the way with LBJ.

And at least the UK had a sham inquiry into it's involvement.  Not a chance of that happening here, although there is a bit of a campaign to get an inquiry,

[Aussie Keith]

Still think it was the right decision, even if there were no WMD's....
With his war crimes and mass slaughter of his own people, Saddam needed to be taken down...

https://www.youtube.com/v/DOEIruwzf54

Must have been our turn for some reason.

[Just Rick]

What do you think now, with the benefit of hindsight and all that we now know about the non-existent WMD?

On the way back from Ballarat yesterday, radio on ABC, it's a couple of minutes to 6 pm and I hear Tony Abbott.  Sounds like an election ad.  I thought: what the f*** is this shi*?  The ABC doesn't have ads, does it?  Then I thought that they must be doing the 'ad' thing for each party in the lead-up to the election. 

I turned it off immediately.

Middle Eastern war.we should NEVER have been invovled,doesn't matter how long ANYONE try's to intervene,these PPL have been infighting for over 2000 years,NO western country ins going to change it one Iota.

Interesting you bring up the add on ABC,fair enough it is a Tax payer funded radio station,but equal time for all I say,but that is not my point here,I am one of the rare ones here who Enjoys FB,mainly for a few of the games,plus good way to share Photo's with family and friends here and over seas,but since the election has been announced,now I didn't sign up for any of it,but the Liberal Party has launched a huge negative campainge towards Labor,fair enough,but I so far have yet to see a Labor party add (this is what I'll also call the Liberal parties campainge of negitivety) on FB,why should I be bombarded by Negativety,when all I am trying to do is chill out,same as when I come here.

[rustynutz]

Still think it was the right decision, even if there were no WMD's....
With his war crimes and mass slaughter of his own people, Saddam needed to be taken down...

https://www.youtube.com/v/DOEIruwzf54

Must have been our turn for some reason.

One of my favourite movies... 

[Doggie 1]

An interesting take on Tony Abbott's volunteering escapades to indigenous communities.

http://1deadlynation.wordpress.com/2013/08/13/abbott-the-truth-and-cost-of-his-indigenous-volunteering/

Not that interesting really.
Just another skewed perspective dumped on to the unsuspecting public.
Martin Hodgson is a left-wing activist and I'd put as much credence in what he has to say as I would in the Greens' Christine Milne being a good prime minister.
Zero.

Martin Hodgson is a Human rights activist, senior advocate with Foreign Prisoner Support Service and a freelance writer.

I remember years and years ago, well before Abbott rose to prominence, he was working in his holidays in remote Aboriginal communities and urging other Liberal party members to do the same. He's done lots in that area without any media scrutiny at all

If you're talking credibility between Abbott and Hodgson, I'm afraid Hodgson is still in the starting blocks.

[Ugly Mongrel]

Slipper is going to have another crack.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2013/peter-slipper-to-recontest-seat-of-fisher-20130815-2ryeu.html

[Doggie 1]

He should be banned IMO.

[Phil №❶]

Boot him out. 

[Ugly Mongrel]

He should be banned IMO.

That's what Mal Brough has been saying all along.

[Doggie 1]

Almost on topic, but slightly off, we have a state Liberal politician who was recently demoted by the Premier.
He used to be the Police Minister and his name is Rob Johnson.
He was a bit "bumbling" and used to get his words mixed up and didn't come across too well in the media, although he always meant well.
In fact, he introduced quite a bit of legislation into parliament that the public said they wanted.
But because the media mocked him, the public did too and he became a bit of a laughing stock.
I remember one time as the (recently appointed) Police Minister he mentioned Crime Stoppers and the reporter asked him what the phone number was and he didn't know.
They made a huge issue of it and everyone called him an idiot.
I'm not saying he never made mistakes this guy, because he made quite a few actually, but his intentions always seemed right to me.
Anyway, following his demotion he's been a bit of a thorn in the side of the state govt and keeps popping up in the media pointing out the Liberal party's (his party) mistakes and failures. And there have been a few lately.
I heard him on the radio this morning and he made a comment to the effect that anyone could say anything they liked about him but they could never call him dishonest and if anyone ever caught him out telling a lie he would stand on top of Parliament House and shout an apology.
It got me thinking, because I think he's right. He is honest. And honourable in his intentions.
And I wondered if the public got what they are always saying they want, an honest politician, and when they got one, they all but hounded him into oblivion.
Perhaps we do get the politicians we deserve after all. 

[Ugly Mongrel]

Almost on topic, but slightly off, we have a state Liberal politician who was recently demoted by the Premier.
He used to be the Police Minister and his name is Rob Johnson.
He was a bit "bumbling" and used to get his words mixed up and didn't come across too well in the media, although he always meant well.
In fact, he introduced quite a bit of legislation into parliament that the public said they wanted.
But because the media mocked him, the public did too and he became a bit of a laughing stock.
I remember one time as the (recently appointed) Police Minister he mentioned Crime Stoppers and the reporter asked him what the phone number was and he didn't know.
They made a huge issue of it and everyone called him an idiot.
I'm not saying he never made mistakes this guy, because he made quite a few actually, but his intentions always seemed right to me.
Anyway, following his demotion he's been a bit of a thorn in the side of the state govt and keeps popping up in the media pointing out the Liberal party's (his party) mistakes and failures. And there have been a few lately.
I heard him on the radio this morning and he made a comment to the effect that anyone could say anything they liked about him but they could never call him dishonest and if anyone ever caught him out telling a lie he would stand on top of Parliament House and shout an apology.
It got me thinking, because I think he's right. He is honest. And honourable in his intentions.
And I wondered if the public got what they are always saying they want, an honest politician, and when they got one, they all but hounded him into oblivion.
Perhaps we do get the politicians we deserve after all. 

Interesting thoughts, Dave, and yes, I agree with you on this one. 

No knowing the full deatils, from your post I could also add that perhaps the media, rather than the public, may be the ones mainly responsible for his downfall.

Compare the way your premier handled  Rob Johnson, who you say is a decent honest bloke,  to the way the QLD Premier Cambell Newman, handled Peter Dowling, my disgusting local member.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/sexting-mp-peter-dowling-doing-a-good-job-newman-20130815-2ry52.html

 

[Doggie 1]

"The media get themselves in a bit of a frenzy at times and miss the point."

I'd say they got the point exactly.
I agree, a bit hard to work out that one.
We have a couple of Labor politicians over here that I've always had respect for, although I don't always agree with their politics. But they were/are just decent people.

[Ugly Mongrel]

With climate change being a major part of this election, I thought I'd post this link to enable you to compare the various party's policies.

http://www.2013pollute-o-meter.org.au/

[Doggie 1]

What's climate change? 

[Ugly Mongrel]

What's climate change? 

According to Tony Abbott, it's "crap"

[Doggie 1]

What's climate change? 

According to Tony Abbott, it's "crap"

 
That's all clear now. 

[Ugly Mongrel]

What's climate change? 

According to Tony Abbott, it's "crap"

 
That's all clear now. 

Oopps, sorry, Dave, I misled you...it's actually "bullshit".

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/abbotts-climate-change-policy-is-bullshit-20091207-kdmb.html

[Doggie 1]

"Kevin Rudd thinks that best way to tackle the issue is to have a tax.
I think that the best way to tackle it is to directly tackle climate change."

[Ugly Mongrel]

"Kevin Rudd thinks that best way to tackle the issue is to have a tax.
I think that the best way to tackle it is to directly tackle climate change."

At least Kev and Tony agree on something.

[Doggie 1]

Yes, that's an old video grab.
I think Tony's thinking has advanced more than Kevin's in the interim though.
But given enough time I have no doubt that old Kev would catch up.

[Phil №❶]

When the Libs get in and the carbon tax is scrapped, what would be a reasonable time frame to expect,  for Diesel and Electricity prices to fall. 

[Doggie 1]

Or emissions to increase? 

[Ugly Mongrel]

Yes, that's an old video grab.
I think Tony's thinking has advanced more than Kevin's in the interim though.
But given enough time I have no doubt that old Kev would catch up.

Well, thanks for clearing that up for me, Dave. It's OK for Tony to change his mind on carbon tax but it's not OK for Julia.